Twin Yamaha 225f not running wot and lots of vibration

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Twin Yamaha 225f not running wot and lots of vibration
Twin Yamaha 225f not running wot and lots of vibration
Twin Yamaha 225f not running wot and lots of vibration
December 13, 2017 5:50 am EST
Location: 33.436N 77.743W
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Twin Yamaha 225f not running wot and lots of vibration
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Twin Yamaha 225f not running wot and lots of vibration
 
 
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toycollector
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:31 pm    Post subject: Twin Yamaha 225f not running wot and lots of vibration Reply with quote

Ok crew, I have been trouble shooting my buddies boat for a couple of months and we are still having issues. In April we cleaned out the injectors due to rusty fuel water seperators. After the cleaning the boat ran perfect 5700 rpm wot. We put about 20 hours on it and we lost performance again. Last trip we turned around when we noticed the boat was running about 4200 wot. We were not going to the break when we knew there was an issue with the motors. We took it home and went thru the vsts the filters new spark plugs checked compression all 120 to 130. We even made sure the fuel tank was venting. We turned the boat in to the mechanic for repair telling him the motors we're vibrating and only running 4200 rpm. He did the following. Rebuilt both lower units (he thought was where the vibration was coming from) he went thru all the fuel system including the injectors he did water pumps an thermostats he claimed they got the motors to 4900 and 4700 rpm but that one motor had 2 cylinders low on compression. And that it was on its last leg. All that was $5000 (high of you ask me) he said the boat was ready so we took it to go king fishing this past Saturday. As soon as we put the boat in the water we were not happy the vibration is still there if not worse and the most we could get after 1 hour of riding was 3900 wot. What do yal think injectors? Valves? Timing? Fuel? Any help is appreciated and if you want to talk on the phone I am more than happy just pm me. Please help as it's Wahoo time!!!
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Brent
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Coastal Pursuit
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am guessing that they are four strokes? If so 120 to 130psi is too low on compression. Timing being off could cause low compression but unlikely that both engines would be doing the same thing. More than likely it is fuel, I would try some remote fuel tanks to eliminate the boat. Good luck
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aftergolf
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other thing to look at are your props, may want to have them scanned. I know on my Vrats, there is a knock sensor and disturbed water from unbalanced props can cause the knock sensor to come on and reduce rpm.
Just a thought, but may want to follow other advise also.
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toycollector
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We just assumed since it was the same props that they were not the issue. I think I will isolate the fuel tank and look into knock sensors as I am not sure if they have them on these models they are 2003 225 four stroke 2 star emissions
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seapro180
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I to think it is a possible fuel problem. Its a little bit suspect to me that the timing or any kind of mechanical issue happened at the same time on both motors. I can only see in this situation as how both motors are acting up with the same problem at the same time, there would have to be a common denominator. That in my opinion would be fuel. You could be running bad fuel which is going through both motors. This can cause them to run rough, surge, foul injectors, etc. I wouId unhook my fuel line from the motor and run it dry so there is no more fuel left in it. Hook up to a pony tank making sure there is no old fuel left in the lines from the old gas. Put new 93 e free in it if possible and see if that fixes it. If not, i would clean the injectors again and run it on the pony and see if that fixes it because they could be fouled from the previous old gas. If so drain your tank of the old gas.
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steve-a
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a thought
Check the anti siphon valve at the tank. Since you had rusty fuel fuel seperator issues it may be stuck or sticking. Definately sounds like a fuel system issue to me if its effecting both engines. Easiest way to test is remove it and run direct and if they run OK then you may have found the issue.
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wavescrash
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like bad fuel to me.

Did you get them scoped for exhaust corrosion?
  
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bltmarine
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be leaning towards a fuel issue as stated above. Once the fuel system has been cleaned is when you want to use a separate tank to eliminate the potential of bad fuel in the boat tank getting back into your freshly cleaned fuel system again. You can check the fuel/water filters for more water and also check the vst for water by draining out of the pink hose attached to the bottom of the vst. There are many components in the fuel system that can lead to your reduction of engine rpm and cause a vibration as well. Let us know what you find.  
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slickish
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rusty fuel filters mean water was in fuel. Pump the tank(s) empty, completely empty, clean the injectors VST inspect the filters. Run engines on 6 gallons tanks with fresh fuel to verify issue was isolated to tanks. Or take to a reputable Yamaha dealer  
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slickish
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also have the exhausts scoped for corrosion, was a big issue on older f225's  
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toycollector
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We know it has some corrosion on the exhaust. Can someone explain why that could effect the performance? Also we did check the anti siphon valve/check valve. I think the next step is the isolation of the fuel. What do yal think about 2 micron filters. Will it starve the engines?

Thanks for all the help in such a short period of time. I love this site. The heck with Facebook when you can have swc!!!
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bltmarine
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The exhaust corrosion is most likely to cause an over heat than any high speed running issues. The running issue would not have gone away for a time if the exhaust was the culprit. Where are you thinking about using a 2 micron filter? The water separator should be left as a 10 micron. I have a few questions regarding the situation and work done. How long had it been since the filters were changed before the rusty ones were swapped out? When does the vibration occur, is it just at higher speeds or when accelerating or at idle? What were the compression numbers and were the motors warm and throttle plates open when checking the compression? How many hours are on the engines? Does your friend have a list of parts from the mechanic that were put on the engines from his bill? Curious to see which filters were used.

Even after leaving the last shop, 4700-4900 is not an acceptable rpm range for top end. It still sounds like a fuel issue and as stated above there are lots of components in the fuel system that could be the culprit.

Let us know what you find.
  
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Chaos
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to check your fuel pressure first at wide open throttle. You can do this on the trailer at the boat ramp. One motor at the time. fuel pressure should be around 38 psi. If the fuel pressure is good you have a spark or injector issue. If the pressure is low, you have insufficient fuel volume. Stopped up screen on fuel pick up, anti siphon, clogged filters, collapsed fuel line, lift pump not working properly, or vst screen. This can be checked by using an inline vacuum gauge. I like to use a piece of clear hose to check for air bubbles too. Also, I see alot of boats come in that are missing the o-ring on the fuel bowl for the on engine filter. this will allow air at high rpms ans cause the symptoms you are having. I hope this helps.  
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toycollector
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so the boat is fixed we had a Teflon stringy substance in the fuel tank that was getting thru all the filters but getting clogged in the injectors. Ran the boat after cleaning the injectors on a new portable tank and it ran fine. We are flushing the tank and hopefully catch a few Wahoo in the near future. Thanks for everyone's help.
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steve-a
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe I would have a discussion with the mechanic about the $5000 spent rebuiding.

Seems pretty likely it had to be fuel related since it was happening to both at one time and that's the one common thing attached to both. wall
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