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Posts: 359
Location: Carteret County
Location: Carteret County
Wed May 23, 2018 8:09 am
I need help. Local technician told me that my 3 year old 3 1/4 ton unit needed a txv valve and the r410a Freon was ok. Told me it was around 300 dollar job. The tech arrived a couple of days later with the valve and a dryer and spent about 2 hours in the yard working on the unit. Got it working and gave me a bill with 801 dollars written on it. Of course I almost had a heart attack and wanted to know why the cost had more than doubled. Told me he had to add 7 lbs of R410A Freon at 40 dollars a pound plus labor. I complained to the company but they are willing to take 100 dollars off of the bill but told me that one should always install fresh Freon instead of re-using the older stuff. Did I get taken to the cleaners on this one or should I agree to pay them what the tech originally told me? I will be paying them something and allow them to make a modest profit but according to my research it should not have been over 450 at the max. Parts were free due to unit being under warrantee.
Posts: 94
Location: New Bern North Carolina
Location: New Bern North Carolina
Wed May 23, 2018 9:33 am
Man, I almost killed a Trane technician in my house. Told my wife to get the kids and take them to their rooms cause they didn't want to witness what was about to go down. Then told him if I get my hands on him he wasn't leaving my house. Same kind of situation you have. Don't mind paying for service call but tell me I don't have a leak and then charge for 2 lbs of Freon??? It's a closed system, if you add Freon, you better find my leak!. Then had the balls to charge me 80.00 for hosing my coil off. I then presented him with a 200.00 bill for renting my hose! It was not a pretty sight. Also hear that Trane units are POS' now that they are manufactured in Mexico! It's a shame things now a days can hardly make it out of warranty period before needing replaced. I feel for you, and yes you probably got taken to the cleaners. As for me, the 80.00 was removed from bill and Freon was on the house after this altercation.
Posts: 359
Location: Carteret County
Location: Carteret County
Wed May 23, 2018 9:46 am
Well in this case it was not a trane technician but a local company out of Beaufort. You are right tho about Trane being a POS and for darn sure I have bought my last one.
Posts: 46
Wed May 23, 2018 10:07 am
Well in hvac courses at the college they did stress the point of covering yourself by putting new refrigerent back not to replace with the recovered refrigerant. THIS was In case the system has had moisture introduced at some point you wont be putting it back in and it falling back on you..Most techs wont do it for that reason but yeah you could of reused it if you wanted.
Posts: 94
Location: New Bern North Carolina
Location: New Bern North Carolina
Wed May 23, 2018 10:48 am
You could easily do an acid test to determine if it could be recovered.
Posts: 519
Wed May 23, 2018 11:47 am
Yeah I work for a large heating co he ran one up in you
Posts: 301
Location: Wilmington, NC
Location: Wilmington, NC
Wed May 23, 2018 4:30 pm
Also have a Trane. Had techs out 8 times in first 4 years. I've pretty much had the entire thing rebuilt at this point.
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2012 Sea Hunt 188 Triton
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Posts: 359
Location: Carteret County
Location: Carteret County
Wed May 23, 2018 5:14 pm
Hate to see American Companies like Trane that used to have an excellent reputation go to pot, of course that should not be an excuse for a local heating and air company in the Beaufort area to stick it to you. Am I obligated to pay the company what they say I owe or should I stick with the estimate the technician gave me after he did the diagnostics?
Posts: 846
Location: Morehead City, NC
Location: Morehead City, NC
Wed May 23, 2018 5:36 pm
I would hold them to the estimate!! That keeps companies from low-balling to get the job then jacking up the bill. Small claims court is cheap and easy. By the way r410a is $5.00 a lb on amazon.
Posts: 1007
Wed May 23, 2018 5:58 pm
I am an electrician who works with several Trane HVAC companies. The cheaper units with lower seer ratings are not great. The high end units with variable speed/variable refrigerant flow are awesome units that rarely have issues and are very very efficient. The best high end units out there.
The part you mentioned is about $75. R410a is usually around $25 a pound due to the licensing required. Yes, YOU can buy it for less. However, an HVAC company has to follow certain environmental guidelines and licensing requirements for using the various refrigerant, and these are not cheap.
That unit doesn't hold much more than 7 pounds, and you said he also replaced the dryer canister. It sounds like he had to vent the system, change the canister and valve, pump it back down, and add the refrigerant.
So, I would say parts $120ish
Labor 3hrs @$85
r410 7# @ $25
That's about $550 give or take. $800 seems really high to me.
The part you mentioned is about $75. R410a is usually around $25 a pound due to the licensing required. Yes, YOU can buy it for less. However, an HVAC company has to follow certain environmental guidelines and licensing requirements for using the various refrigerant, and these are not cheap.
That unit doesn't hold much more than 7 pounds, and you said he also replaced the dryer canister. It sounds like he had to vent the system, change the canister and valve, pump it back down, and add the refrigerant.
So, I would say parts $120ish
Labor 3hrs @$85
r410 7# @ $25
That's about $550 give or take. $800 seems really high to me.
Posts: 359
Location: Carteret County
Location: Carteret County
Wed May 23, 2018 6:32 pm
parts were suppose to be under warrantee therefore there was no cost for parts other than 7 lbs of R410 Freon which I was told should have been re-used but since the Repairman did not carry a re-claim tank that was clean the company said it was cheaper to add new Freon than to have to buy a reclaim tank , I also found out the hard way that NC taxpayers are now required to pay sales tax on labor for many service providers. That tax really hurts us ol timers on fixed income.
Side note, For some reason am not able to answer my private messages but one of you were correct when you guess which company I am complaining about. To the other message you would be advised to look in Morehead for a heating and air man.
Side note, For some reason am not able to answer my private messages but one of you were correct when you guess which company I am complaining about. To the other message you would be advised to look in Morehead for a heating and air man.
Posts: 359
Location: Carteret County
Location: Carteret County
Wed May 23, 2018 7:12 pm
| fishangel wrote: |
| I would hold them to the estimate!! That keeps companies from low-balling to get the job then jacking up the bill. Small claims court is cheap and easy. By the way r410a is $5.00 a lb on amazon. |
Since my pm does not work and will not allow me to answer them your guess was correct as to which comapany is giving me trouble
Posts: 239
Location: Huntersville
Location: Huntersville
Wed May 23, 2018 9:31 pm
Pro tip... When buying a new system, get a parts and labor warranty. There's so much markup in HVAC it's ridiculous. That system they sell you for $6k, they pay about $1800 for. OP good luck with it, they'll likely say that original quote was just an estimate and other work had to be done. Raise hell and get them down a hundred or so.
Posts: 280
Wed May 23, 2018 10:23 pm
If the part is under warranty should not Trane have to pay for labor? He did tell you 300 and if your Freon was good why should you have to pay for new it’s not your fault he did not have a clean reclaim tank.
Posts: 359
Location: Carteret County
Location: Carteret County
Thu May 24, 2018 7:43 am
evidently you must reclaim Freon in your unit to a new or clean tank in order to put it back into your system. The Dealer claims they did not have a clean reclaim tank so it forced me to use new Freon at 40 bucks per pound plus labor. One can buy R410A Freon for around 5 bucks per pound delivered so imagine that's the real reason this company decided that I needed new Freon. Trane does not warranty labor only parts that you need, Freon is not considered to be a part. I also know the repairman was on my property for about 3 hours total and that includes the initial trip when he did the diagnosis. My total labor charges were 460 dollars plus 90 dollars for the diagnosis. Still trying to figure out what to pay this company and make them a modest profit at the same time. I am more than willing to meet them in small claims court if that is where it ends up cause I am not about to pay them the full amount they are demanding.
Posts: 688
Location: Raleigh/Surf City
Location: Raleigh/Surf City
Thu May 24, 2018 8:11 am
You guys that hate Trane, go buy a Lennox. 
Around Raleigh the going rate to replace a TXV in warranty is $600-$900. The refrigerant can be re-used. We run it thru a filter dryer on the way out.
This job involves going out to diagnose (15 mins to 3 hrs depending on the competency of the tech) // going to the parts house to pick up the part // going back to your house to install which involves brazing, nitrogen, and sticks of solder at $4 a piece // vacuum // re-charge // checkout // then driving back to the parts house to turn the warranty part in // then getting billed for the part for 3 months in a row because they refuse to issue warranty credit til the owner (me) goes in and talks to a manager (yes this happens more often than it should).
We get $75 per lb of R410 and $125 per lb (lowest in town) for R22.
You people bitching about the 2 hrs a tech spends at your house have no clue what it costs to run a business. I'll be the 1st to admit there's a lot of crooks in HVAC. Choose wisely. I haven't paid for advertising in over a decade and my business has grown every yr.
We're entitled to work as hard as we want to fund our food, mortgage, boat, retirement, social security (double), have as many kids as we want and can afford, etc., etc., etc.
How much do you make? How much is your employer funding for your ss each month?, for your 401k? for your health insurance? When people bitch about what the trades make they compare (in their minds) their takehome pay. Compare apples to apple sometime and you might be surprised.
FYI - why should we make less for an in warranty job? We're missing out on the parts profit so we charge more for labor on in warranty repairs to try and net the same profit (we're doing the same job). We give a 2 yr warranty on labor and I give my customers a break on labor after that so most of the above is talking about warranty jobs we did not install.
End of rant.
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Grady White Sailfish 282 w/ Yamaha 250s
Around Raleigh the going rate to replace a TXV in warranty is $600-$900. The refrigerant can be re-used. We run it thru a filter dryer on the way out.
This job involves going out to diagnose (15 mins to 3 hrs depending on the competency of the tech) // going to the parts house to pick up the part // going back to your house to install which involves brazing, nitrogen, and sticks of solder at $4 a piece // vacuum // re-charge // checkout // then driving back to the parts house to turn the warranty part in // then getting billed for the part for 3 months in a row because they refuse to issue warranty credit til the owner (me) goes in and talks to a manager (yes this happens more often than it should).
We get $75 per lb of R410 and $125 per lb (lowest in town) for R22.
You people bitching about the 2 hrs a tech spends at your house have no clue what it costs to run a business. I'll be the 1st to admit there's a lot of crooks in HVAC. Choose wisely. I haven't paid for advertising in over a decade and my business has grown every yr.
We're entitled to work as hard as we want to fund our food, mortgage, boat, retirement, social security (double), have as many kids as we want and can afford, etc., etc., etc.
How much do you make? How much is your employer funding for your ss each month?, for your 401k? for your health insurance? When people bitch about what the trades make they compare (in their minds) their takehome pay. Compare apples to apple sometime and you might be surprised.
FYI - why should we make less for an in warranty job? We're missing out on the parts profit so we charge more for labor on in warranty repairs to try and net the same profit (we're doing the same job). We give a 2 yr warranty on labor and I give my customers a break on labor after that so most of the above is talking about warranty jobs we did not install.
End of rant.
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Grady White Sailfish 282 w/ Yamaha 250s
Posts: 359
Location: Carteret County
Location: Carteret County
Thu May 24, 2018 8:21 am
baytrol 23, if your technicians tell one of your customers that it looks like the job will end up costing about 300 dollars after the diagnostic trip do you allow him or her to tack on another 500 dollars to the bill without informing the customer?
Posts: 846
Location: Morehead City, NC
Location: Morehead City, NC
Thu May 24, 2018 9:38 am
FYI - why should we make less for an in warranty job? We're missing out on the parts profit so we charge more for labor on in warranty repairs to try and net the same profit (we're doing the same job).
So basically as far as you are concern, you are justified in screwing the guy on the labor charges!!
So basically as far as you are concern, you are justified in screwing the guy on the labor charges!!
Posts: 94
Location: New Bern North Carolina
Location: New Bern North Carolina
Thu May 24, 2018 10:45 am
Baytro, you're absolutely right. You can do whatever you want and do it how you want to. I don't care! But I have been an electrician for nearly 30 years now and if a client called me for a bad receptacle. I go out on service call, find it is a GFCI tripped, I simply reset GFCI, look for what possibly caused it to trip, charge for service call only, and say have a nice day. I won't go to supply house (back of truck) be gone for couple hours, charge for replacing bad receptacle and 3 hours of work for no reason. You get the point ,don't you? We're talking about people shitting someone out of their (also) hard earned money.
Posts: 605
Location: The LA
Location: The LA
Thu May 24, 2018 11:45 am
If HVAC company told me they didn't OWN a clean tank for refrigerant recovery, I would immediately eject them from my property. What HVAC tech is not prepared to recover refrigerant???? Sounds like you are dealing wih a shade tree operation.
Posts: 605
Location: The LA
Location: The LA
Thu May 24, 2018 11:52 am
| baytro23 wrote: |
| You guys that hate Trane, go buy a Lennox. Around Raleigh the going rate to replace a TXV in warranty is $600-$900. The refrigerant can be re-used. We run it thru a filter dryer on the way out.
This job involves going out to diagnose (15 mins to 3 hrs depending on the competency of the tech) // going to the parts house to pick up the part // going back to your house to install which involves brazing, nitrogen, and sticks of solder at $4 a piece // vacuum // re-charge // checkout // then driving back to the parts house to turn the warranty part in // then getting billed for the part for 3 months in a row because they refuse to issue warranty credit til the owner (me) goes in and talks to a manager (yes this happens more often than it should). We get $75 per lb of R410 and $125 per lb (lowest in town) for R22. You people bitching about the 2 hrs a tech spends at your house have no clue what it costs to run a business. I'll be the 1st to admit there's a lot of crooks in HVAC. Choose wisely. I haven't paid for advertising in over a decade and my business has grown every yr. We're entitled to work as hard as we want to fund our food, mortgage, boat, retirement, social security (double), have as many kids as we want and can afford, etc., etc., etc. How much do you make? How much is your employer funding for your ss each month?, for your 401k? for your health insurance? When people bitch about what the trades make they compare (in their minds) their takehome pay. Compare apples to apple sometime and you might be surprised. FYI - why should we make less for an in warranty job? We're missing out on the parts profit so we charge more for labor on in warranty repairs to try and net the same profit (we're doing the same job). We give a 2 yr warranty on labor and I give my customers a break on labor after that so most of the above is talking about warranty jobs we did not install. End of rant. |
So if you quote a guy $400, then charge him $800 because you weren't skilled enough to diagnose the problem and perform an accurate estimate, said guy should be on the hook for your incompetence?
No sir. If you go a dollar over your estimate, and you expect to get paid for it, you better damn well get a customer's approval before doing the "extra" work. I think that's what small claims court will say.
Posts: 359
Location: Carteret County
Location: Carteret County
Thu May 24, 2018 1:45 pm
parts were Fedexed to Repair shop and supplied by Trane at no cost. From what I can tell the repairman spent a total of 3 hours at my house, which is about 14 miles from shop , NC sales tax of 7% on labor , I refuse to pay for new Freon since it was not needed, figuring 90 bucks per hour comes to 270 dollars plus tax of 20 dollars equal around 290 dollars which is almost what the tech told me it would run. Thinking about ordering a 25 lb bottle of R410A Freon from amazon free shipping and simply giving it to the repair shop in exchange for the 7 pounds they put in my unit since they seem to value it so much. 290 dollars for the repair job and 110 plus tax for a large 25# bottle of Freon comes to 407 dollars. Am I being fair?
Posts: 359
Location: Carteret County
Location: Carteret County
Thu May 24, 2018 2:20 pm
| DAVID146 wrote: |
| I didn’t think you could buy freon without a license |
You can as long as its over 20lbs. Have no earthly idea as to why you or I can purchase 1000 lbs of the stuff but not allowed to purchase 5 or 6 lbs.
Posts: 846
Location: Morehead City, NC
Location: Morehead City, NC
Thu May 24, 2018 3:29 pm
You are far far too generous with that offer. They have attempt to basically extort a 266% overcharge that they cannot justify. Your offer to pay them 66% more than the estimate is one hell of a deal for them. Hold them to their estimate, you have already been extremely "Christian" by not mentioning their name. They should give you a big damn discount for that!
Posts: 52
Location: Wilmington NC
Location: Wilmington NC
Thu May 24, 2018 3:58 pm
I sell HVAC and worked on it as well, going on 35 years now. Damn I'm getting old. Trane was bought by Ingersoll Rand and shipped everything south. Trane is having problems with leaks in the evap coil, txv's sticking and reversing valves. If it's possible your system could of been pumped down and most of the 410a could of been saved give or take a pound or two. I replaced my own txv along time ago on a trane, pumped it down replaced the txv started it up checked pressures and if I remember correctly I was off by about a pound. Like my customer told me they finally found out what could stop a trane.
Posts: 688
Location: Raleigh/Surf City
Location: Raleigh/Surf City
Wed May 30, 2018 7:14 pm
| downeaster wrote: |
| baytrol 23, if your technicians tell one of your customers that it looks like the job will end up costing about 300 dollars after the diagnostic trip do you allow him or her to tack on another 500 dollars to the bill without informing the customer? |
NO!!
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Grady White Sailfish 282 w/ Yamaha 250s
Posts: 688
Location: Raleigh/Surf City
Location: Raleigh/Surf City
Wed May 30, 2018 7:22 pm
| jasonafox wrote: | ||
So if you quote a guy $400, then charge him $800 because you weren't skilled enough to diagnose the problem and perform an accurate estimate, said guy should be on the hook for your incompetence? I don't know how to answer that. I always diagnose correctly and bill what I say. Why would anyone use a company that can't do the job right? No sir. If you go a dollar over your estimate, and you expect to get paid for it, you better damn well get a customer's approval before doing the "extra" work. I think that's what small claims court will say. |
If I quote $400 I charge $400. How did you get I charge double or that I am not skilled enough to diagnose any problem I run across from my post?
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Grady White Sailfish 282 w/ Yamaha 250s
Posts: 4196
Location: Johnston County, NC
Location: Johnston County, NC
Thu May 31, 2018 7:18 am
| downeaster wrote: |
| I need help. Local technician told me that my 3 year old 3 1/4 ton unit needed a txv valve and the r410a Freon was ok. Told me it was around 300 dollar job. The tech arrived a couple of days later with the valve and a dryer and spent about 2 hours in the yard working on the unit. Got it working and gave me a bill with 801 dollars written on it. Of course I almost had a heart attack and wanted to know why the cost had more than doubled. Told me he had to add 7 lbs of R410A Freon at 40 dollars a pound plus labor. I complained to the company but they are willing to take 100 dollars off of the bill but told me that one should always install fresh Freon instead of re-using the older stuff. Did I get taken to the cleaners on this one or should I agree to pay them what the tech originally told me? I will be paying them something and allow them to make a modest profit but according to my research it should not have been over 450 at the max. Parts were free due to unit being under warrantee. |
Yes. Your anal region was serviced.
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Posts: 359
Location: Carteret County
Location: Carteret County
Thu May 31, 2018 7:46 am
have not paid them a dime yet. Most people tell me and from what I have read that to change out a txv valve is about an hour job plus another hour to pump the system down and re-install the old Freon. Anyways the tech gave me an estimate of around 300 dollars and he should know. The company has dropped the price down to just under 700 dollars and claim it cost more to carry around 1 use tanks to be used in recovery of Freon than it does to simply add new Freon at 40 bucks per pound plus labor. Should have gotten the estimate in writing I guess but am now debating whether to pay the 700 dollars or see them in small claims court.
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