All commercial fishermen do is provided a service - SaltwaterCentral.Com

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cheeks
Posts: 353
Location: wilmington nc
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Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:10 am
While reading another thread it became clear to me there is confusion about what commercial fishermen and fish dealers/brokers do.

ALL FISH SWIMMING IN OUR WATERS ARE A PUBLIC RESOURCE OWNED BY ALL OF US

If you wish to harvest some of this SHARED resource you can either do it yourself or pay someone(a commercial fishermen) to do it for you.

If I decided to go to one of our local seafood dealers tomorrow and purchase some local fish for whatever reason, that's my choice and my resource just as it is yours. If you want to catch all your own fish and never wish to purchase any thats your choice. But stop yelling at the guy I hired to catch my fish! If I chose to hire a contractor to do some work on my house because I don't have the time, equipment or "know how" thats up to me. Obviously no one would come to my house and start saying that my contractor shouldn't be able to use this saw or that drill. That's ridiculous. But god help the poor bastard I hire to catch some fish for me. He's gonna catch hell.

Im a recreational fishermen too. Just because we spend a gazzilion dollars per fish caught does not mean that some guy in western NC that doesn't own fishing rod or a boat can't pay someone to do his fishing for him. Furthermore, it doesn't make the guy he hires a jerk. Additionally this myopic argument from some recs that all the fish should be theirs is ridiculous.
  
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blackdiamond
Posts: 49
Location: up the W O riv stella
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Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:46 am
I agree,well stated.  
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crabman00
Posts: 336
Location: Rockingham cnty
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Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:27 am
Well said Cheeks. It's definitely nice to have something to choose from other than Tilapia or Mekong river catfish.  
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downeaster
Posts: 359
Location: Carteret County
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Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:48 am
Every NC citizen can not afford to have to spend 1500 dollars or whatever to catch a flounder, speck, or striper for their evening meal as we are told that the average recs will spend.  
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knot right
Posts: 36
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Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:12 am
This is one area that has bothered me for a while. I fish for fun no doubt and most of the time I keep and eat what I catch.

If I wanted to feed more than the two people in my household with fresh fish I would have to purchase it. I can go to a fish house and buy 20 trout but can only keep 4. I can buy 20 drum but only keep 1.

With more and more rec pressure and commercial effort declining only slightly, how low do the rec limits need to go for commercial fishermen to continue supplying those who don't fish?

I could move out west and start hunting elk to see what it tastes like but not sure I can purchase any since I don't hunt for them myself. As far as the contractor, I can go and purchase all the materials and tools I need and do that job myself as long as it passed inspection.

In regards to inshore netting, or those using the "contractors tools." I would like to see a dollar amount that determines who a commercial fishermen is and grandfather them in. Get rid of all others except those who truly make a living doing it. Allow them to pass that license down to their children or it dies with them. Those are the only ones who need or know how to properly use that gear. I can go buy all the tools I want but would hate to see what a house looked like that I built. It would give them less competition and a higher price at the dock.

It's getting about time to make some changes. I don't "want them all to myself" but would like the ability to retain more when needed. Looking at rec limits in other states raises eyebrows and think we should look to others success for guidance.
  

Last edited by knot right on Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MarlinManiac
Posts: 1393
Location: Belville NC
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Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:23 am
I don't think anyone on this site will be surprised that I absolutely disagree. If you want to "hire" someone to catch your fish, then do that. You'll find they have the same right to one gag grouper and 5 sea bass per day that you have, and no more. Everyone in the country has the same right of access to this resource. BuddyRoe and I have discussed this at length many times and I maintain that your right of access does not convey to anyone else. Try giving your recreational license to someone else and see how far it gets them with the judge. Fishing for profit is different from fishing for food and both are different from fishing for sport (C&R). I do not believe that fishing for profit is a protected right, but a privilege.
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cheeks
Posts: 353
Location: wilmington nc
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Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:26 am
MarlinManiac wrote:
I don't think anyone on this site will be surprised that I absolutely disagree. If you want to "hire" someone to catch your fish, then do that. You'll find they have the same right to one gag grouper and 5 sea bass per day that you have, and no more. Everyone in the country has the same right of access to this resource.


Sir I don't even want a whole grouper. 2lbs will feed the family a nice dinner this evening. My Carolina Skiff has absolutely no business 30 miles offshore. I prefer to pay someone with a bigger boat, the gear and the experience to do that for me. Not to mention I need to work today so I don't have time to go.
  
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rdnkvet
Posts: 1432
Location: Wallace, NC
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Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:17 am
I don't think that most people's concern is paying for someone to catch their fish. It is the waste of juvenile fish and the bycatch that is removed from the public resource on a grand scale that is the issue. I don't think anyone would have issues (I certainly don't) if the methods employed to harvest the public resource did not cause the death of so much of the resource. I'm not saying that catch and release doesn't kill some fish, but it does not on the same scale as certain types of commercial practices. In comparing this to building a house...if you hire someone to build a house and they order way more lumber than you need with disregard to getting as much from each piece of cut lumber as possible, and then throw away that excess lumber because it could not be returned, then I don't think you would be very pleased with that builder. Not to mention, all that wasted lumber was removed from the resource that could have been used elsewhere. Just my $.02.  
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downeaster
Posts: 359
Location: Carteret County
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Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:31 am
Rdnkvet, The following came from the latest stock assessment for NC's southern flounder and if you would please read the last couple of sentences and then tell us if you still of the opinion that commercial pratices are the primary problem.

Based on growth model predictions, most southern flounder discarded from commercial and recreational fisheries are females, age-0 or -1, or males up to age-5. The Stock Synthesis model predicted the number of mortalities related to discards from the commercial fishery and catch and release in the recreational fishery ranged from 32,000 to 63,000 fish during the 1990s (Figure 21). Beginning in 2000, discard mortalities increased to maximums of 142,000 fish in 2008 and 123,000 fish in 2013. While the majority of discard mortalities resulted from the commercial gill-net fleet in the 1990s, the majority of discard mortalities since 2000 have resulted from the recreational fisheries. Forty-six percent of discard mortalities resulted from the recreational fisheries in 1991, and 87% of all discard mortalities resulted from recreational fisheries in 2013.
  
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CoastalCarolina
Posts: 2352
Location: Ocean Isle Beach
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Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:06 pm
Sorry, as a taxpayer we should all be tired of subsidizing the majority of those with a comm license. Are taxpayers supporting your hobby? Why should they take care of the welfare queens because they have a net? Get rid of them and maybe it will help the fish recover and save taxpayers millions. About 2/3 never REPORT selling a fish. About 2/3 of those that do sell make less than $1000 annually ~ that is a hobby folks! Most taxpayers never eat a fish caught in NC but still subsidize them. If comms want any respect they must be a professional, not a rec with a net.  
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MarlinManiac
Posts: 1393
Location: Belville NC
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Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:08 pm
Cheeks, my post above is directed at a specific issue, and that is whether or not commercial fishing is a right. I believe it is a privilege that commercial watermen purchase every year by paying for the licenses and permits needed for the job, let alone the taxes they pay on gear, fuel and the income. I am not anti-commercial sector and I buy their products every week. My preferred method is like your's, to catch it myself. The only seafood that I purchase that is not locally caught is because it can't be caught locally. Like snow/king crab legs or cold water lobster. And neither of them is as sweet as a fresh lump of backfin in my opinion.
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cheeks
Posts: 353
Location: wilmington nc
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Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:11 pm
rdnkvet wrote:
I don't think that most people's concern is paying for someone to catch their fish. It is the waste of juvenile fish and the bycatch that is removed from the public resource on a grand scale that is the issue. I don't think anyone would have issues (I certainly don't) if the methods employed to harvest the public resource did not cause the death of so much of the resource. I'm not saying that catch and release doesn't kill some fish, but it does not on the same scale as certain types of commercial practices. In comparing this to building a house...if you hire someone to build a house and they order way more lumber than you need with disregard to getting as much from each piece of cut lumber as possible, and then throw away that excess lumber because it could not be returned, then I don't think you would be very pleased with that builder. Not to mention, all that wasted lumber was removed from the resource that could have been used elsewhere. Just my $.02.


Many good points there. I would like to see changes in some commercial gears and some recreational practices too. What drives me crazy is when certain recreational fishermen take the position that commercial fishing is bad and rec fishing is good.

What really drives me crazy is when a recreational try to support amendments that give them sole right to catch certain species of fish to the exclusion of everyone else. When otherwise reasonable adults starting acting like a four year old in a sand box that wants the entire think to himself, I feel like someone needs to be said.
  
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cheeks
Posts: 353
Location: wilmington nc
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Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:26 pm
CoastalCarolina wrote:
Why should they take care of the welfare queens because they have a net?


Aghh...Sir. I don't even know how to reply to that, nor should I. I am leaving this thread.

Have a good day.
  
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rdnkvet
Posts: 1432
Location: Wallace, NC
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Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:49 pm
downeaster wrote:
Rdnkvet, The following came from the latest stock assessment for NC's southern flounder and if you would please read the last couple of sentences and then tell us if you still of the opinion that commercial pratices are the primary problem.

Based on growth model predictions, most southern flounder discarded from commercial and recreational fisheries are females, age-0 or -1, or males up to age-5. The Stock Synthesis model predicted the number of mortalities related to discards from the commercial fishery and catch and release in the recreational fishery ranged from 32,000 to 63,000 fish during the 1990s (Figure 21). Beginning in 2000, discard mortalities increased to maximums of 142,000 fish in 2008 and 123,000 fish in 2013. While the majority of discard mortalities resulted from the commercial gill-net fleet in the 1990s, the majority of discard mortalities since 2000 have resulted from the recreational fisheries. Forty-six percent of discard mortalities resulted from the recreational fisheries in 1991, and 87% of all discard mortalities resulted from recreational fisheries in 2013.


Interesting information. I would be interested in how this data is obtained that shows such an exact percentage of mortality on the rec side. However, my comment was more in general, not related to a single species. Not only finfish that are harvested for rec and comm purposes, but the species by which these finfish feed upon.
  
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All commercial fishermen do is provided a service - SaltwaterCentral.Com